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New Armor Model

Tankers rejoice! Starting with the imminent Leeb build, your enemies will have to learn to aim better if they want to stop you. We have increased the level of combat realism by completely rewriting the armor physics model. Here’s how it works…

The diagram below illustrates how the impact of a projectile on a tank’s hull will be simulated in Leeb‘s new armor model. Gone are the days when charging a Sherman or a Panzer III head-on might have sounded like an acceptable plan. Now the damage dealt to an armored vehicle will depend on factors such as

  • Impact angle: If your shots don’t connect with a perpendicular surface, they may cause less damage, or even bounce off the armor completely;
  • Armor thickness: The new physics simulate the difference between trying to penetrate 5 mm armor and 70 mm armor — so you will have to search for weak spots;
  • Weapon type/caliber: Certain types of weapons now have more penetrating power than others — so not all shots will punch through!

Ricochet

So how will you know if you did any damage, you ask? Fortunately, the game will now give you visual feedback, as well as warning messages. This next diagram shows what happens when you forget to wear your glasses. In that situation, the game will give you the warning “Angle Too High“.

If you aimed at a nice straight angle, but were shooting at the front plating of a mighty Tiger I with an M3 Stuart’s modest 37mm cannon, the warning “Armor Too Thick” will be displayed. This means you should probably a) drive around the Tiger and aim for a spot where the armor is thinner, or b) run!

However, if you succesfully hit a tank where it hurts, you will be rewarded with the “Armor Penetrated” message. Note that a certain random factor also plays in determining the exact amount of damage inflicted.

  1. C0nn0RC0nn0R09-10-2013

    We can immobilize tanks?

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-10-2013

      No, this physics model doesn’t simulate disabling individual parts like the engine or the tracks.

      However, the new armor model lays the foundations for adding such features later in the development; in other words, with these new physics, it becomes possible to say “you hit this or that part of the vehicle”.

  2. GiammeGiamme09-10-2013

    Is this working in a 2D prospective only, or the height will affect the angle too?

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-10-2013

      It’s a 3D game, isn’t it? ;-)
      The model is calculated in all three dimensions. Armor thickness can be different if you shoot at a tank from above instead of shooting at the sides.

  3. ukkonoaukkonoa09-10-2013

    Do you count the distance of the shot?

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-11-2013

      Right now distance has no effect on the model.

      The devs have discussed making it affect a shell’s ability to punch through armor, but they have not reached a decision about that yet. So this is one possible way the model could be tweaked, IF deemed necessary.

  4. J0N4SJ0N4S09-10-2013

    I have 3 questions:
    1. will the caliber of the gun play a role in the non penetration angle?
    So it will be like a Tiger can penetrate a Stuart anyway or will it be like a Tiger can bounce a Stuart’s armor?
    2. will the HE ammo change, so you it does more damage when the armor is not so thick?
    3. will the Pz 1 be able to penetrate anything with it’s MG?

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-11-2013

      1. The caliber only affects how thick an armor can be penetrated, and the resulting damage. So penetration angle affects all weapon calibers in the same way, i.e. the closer you are to a right angle, the less armor you need to penetrate. Once the model determines that your shot doesn’t bounce off, then of course the Tiger’s cannon is more powerful and punches through a Stuart better than a Stuart can punch through a Tiger.

      2. As it is right now, HE ammo does very little damage to tanks — unless you’re talking about bombs dropped from planes, which are still very devastating. HE penetrates less, but can still penetrate some armor, once again depending on caliber. A heavy tank’s HE will penetrate up to 30 mm of effective armor thickness with the current model, a light tank only 15 mm.

      3. With the new model, large MGs can do some damage to light armor. We’re talking the MGs on the Panzer I, the flak, the quad, the LP-38 Lightning and the Messerschmitt. However the MG rounds can only penetrate 40 mm at best, and do significantly less damage. So theoretically speaking, you could shoot a heavy tank in the rear with a Panzer I and damage it, but it would be more annoying than threatening, like repeatedly poking someone bigger than you (=Bad Idea™).

      • sicamsicam09-11-2013

        First my compliments about your game

        Not many Tiger 1 & 2 are destroyed by allies tanks but mostly by artillery and airplanes, and sometimes by lack off ammo and fuel by the crew itself.
        On western front only the Firefly (a British Sherman with a 76 long gun) and the M10 & M36 90 mm were able to destroy the tigers and not easy. Tanks can’t go in a urban environment without infantry protection and that is still so today.

        Q- is it possible to make it that infantry can shoot through to peepholes because the prism were not common in those days. It makes the crews of the tanks more cautious and the game more exciting, specially in case off the panzer 1 (the infantry killer)thank you

        • pyrosheeppyrosheep09-14-2013

          actually the US 76mm M1A1 (mounted on the Sherman in-game) could penetrate a tiger1’s hull at 500-400m IRL, so it would be interesting to see if that is modeled in-game.

          IMO the panzer1 should be replaced by the panzerIII (or at least a panzer 2) with the
          panzer IV.H taking the middle spot vs the sherman(76) because the americans get a heavy too.

      • JinppaJinppa09-12-2013

        How about MG42 or Kar98k? It fires same ammunition as Panzer 1, does it penetrate the same?
        MG42 even has higher velocity than the MG34 in Panzer 1.

  5. RaulRaul09-10-2013

    Heck yeah, we are getting the armor model guys, now tankers finally require thinking in order to destroy tanks…but they might still waste it.
    Let’s hope that things just as good as those will come in the future, and when I say good, I mean perfect ^^.

  6. Thompson153Thompson15309-10-2013

    Hopefully this will mean that the Tiger will finally be a feared tank on the battlefield instead of “oh look, a Tiger. Let’s go get some free credits!” Great move Reto, looking forward to it!

    And btw, any idea when (if ever) we will get modules in this game that could be damaged/destroyed? Things like tracks, optics, etc.

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-11-2013

      The new armor model makes it possible to add this feature in a future version, but it’s not scheduled yet, still just on the list of cool stuff that is being considered.

  7. wolfbaronwolfbaron09-10-2013

    love how u presented the new armor modelling…keep up the good work : )

  8. bsnake(Latvia)bsnake(Latvia)09-10-2013

    Thank you Reto!

  9. lovepurplelovepurple09-10-2013

    Loving this already

  10. StormSkilledStormSkilled09-11-2013

    Yeah definitely love this new armor model. I cant wait to witness these great new battles with the M26 Pershing vs Tiger I ! That will be a great battle to witness.

  11. djopadjopa09-11-2013

    great work, great news!

    but will the pnz1 be able to do anything to allies tanks????

    or will you announce a new tank for axis in the next days? :)

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-11-2013

      The MGs on the Panzer I can damage armor up to 40 mm thick in the best circumstances. However at 40 mm of effective thickness, not all bullets will penetrate; some will just scratch the paint. You’ll probably need to shoot hundreds of rounds into a Stuart to destroy it. But it can be achieved.

      • JohanC1JohanC109-11-2013

        Don’t take me wrong, the new armor penetration system is great, and the whole game is pretty good, but isn’t that means that Axis doesn’t have a tier one mobile at? It looks like Pz1 will be free kill for US tankers. For how long Pz1 gunner will need to shoot at Stuart to kill it, considering gunner will shoot at Stuart from best angel and at weakest side?

        • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-11-2013

          If you aim at a Stuart’s weak spot with a Pz I, it takes 10 seconds (approx. 200 bullets) to blow it up, pretty much the same amount of time it now takes a Stuart to blow up a Pz I (2-3 hits with AP rounds). They are evenly matched as far as I can tell.

          • djopadjopa09-11-2013

            thanks for the answer

  12. sedzerosedzero09-11-2013

    Brace yourself, Tanker hordes are coming.

  13. fisher666fisher66609-11-2013

    Please dont forget to tell the system, that the tank and also other armored vehicles dont get damaged because of a small accident. its very annoying that a small crash into sandbacks penetrates tanks health/armopr, just lolable

  14. halvadakis2012halvadakis201209-11-2013

    ok nice work but the allies still lack from a heavy tank like a m26 pershing???wouldnt that be more great
    so the allies can have a worthy oppent against those tigers.keep up the good work reto!!!

  15. Marv2.0Marv2.009-11-2013

    well nice to hear but i have a question about the bazooka
    i normally go that near that i hit the tank at the chains so this is weakest spot but normally doesn´t kill tank really but would it be possible that tanks can´t drive than when u hit chains somehow ??? except u repair it again (blitzkrieg the game made me think of it)
    but all in all nice thing :D and pls panzerfaust is an oneshoot throw away weapon u couldn´t reload them (just u want a game with weapons like in WWII so than program it so :D)

    • Reto.GargamelReto.Gargamel09-11-2013

      Scroll up in the page, this question has been answered.

    • djopadjopa09-11-2013

      the german soldier isn’t reloading anything, he pulls out a new pf60….
      and believe me you wouldn’t want them to make it too much rl because in rl your bazooka sucked big time agains german armor while the faust could penetrate up to 200mm of armor.

  16. BenjieChewBenjieChew09-11-2013

    Well this might sound a little dumb, but here goes anyway-

    Will nudging a tree or house still damage your tank? That 1 bar of HP lost has cost me many a tank :P

    And a suggestion for later patches- Could we roll over trees or telephone cables?

  17. AsmodeusAsmodeus09-11-2013

    If this is the first iteration of said model, it is most welcomed!
    Thank you Reto for taking on this direction!

  18. patton1995patton199509-11-2013

    AWSOME …. enough said :D

  19. cocolat1xcocolat1x09-11-2013

    Funny how you talk about shell penetration yet you put a picture with the pz1.

  20. andreaske1andreaske109-11-2013

    Weapon type/caliber: Certain types of weapons now have more penetrating power than others — so not all shots will punch through!

    So is there a diffrence between the PZF and zooka now? Or is that an idea for later?

  21. TuupertunutTuupertunut09-11-2013

    So did I understand correctly? If you shoot a stuart with a tiger or a pz1 with a pershing, it will have a 0% chance of penetration if the angle is over 40°. That makes it very efficient for light tanks to turn their corner on enemies, even heavy tanks can’t penetrate them other than turret.

    Then there is the question BenjieChew already asked: Will you still get damaged by hitting a wall or tree or even a fast steepening hill that your suspension should absorb in real life?

    And one more question: Does the tank get damaged by penetrating non-important overhangs such as mudguards?

  22. wolfaltegowolfaltego10-03-2013

    Reminds me of taking out 3 tigers (not at the same time) using a Stuart. In fairness I ambushed them each time but still.

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